I'm BackInterview by JazzImprov.com1) You've cited trumpeter and flugelhornist Clark terry as your mentor. Could you talk about his sound, his recordings, performances, spirit and personality and how they impacted you? I Met Mr. Clark Terry in March 1971. He was a guest soloist with our high school Jazz and Concert band. From the first note he played I knew I wanted to be a jazz musician. I had never heard anything so beautiful in my life. I had been around music all my life, but this was my first introduction to jazz. Clark is the most perfect trumpet player in the business; his tone is so pure and round, at times it sounds like silk. There is not a trumpet player that would not agree with me. Not only does he play trumpet but also the flugelhorn. He was one of the first jazz musicians to incorporate the flugelhorn into the jazz genre, and we are all glad he did. His style, time, pitch and interpretation of music are impeccable. There will never be a more complete trumpet player, ever. His recordings always have a swing to them and you can also hear how happy a person he is. A great example of this is the "Happy Horns of Clark Terry." This is one of my favorite recordings, although there are many. His live "Big Bad Band" is also great. Of course, all the recordings he did with Duke and Monk and Basie are cool, too. My other favorite is the recording we did at the Bern Jazz Festival, and the live DVD we did at Birdland, NYC, coming out in September. His spirit and personality--Wow! "MUMBLES" says it all. I just wish everyone could take a lesson from Clark. He has the most humble and spirited personality of anyone who ever walked the planet!!!! I have known him for over 30 years and he has always been positive and encouraging and always helpful. How he has impacted my life? I firmly believe that if I had not met Clark back in 1971, I would have never gone into music. And because of my association with him, many doors have be opened for me. But most of all, I cherish his friendship. He is not only a friend but, after the passing of my father, I consider him my dad. He taught me how to circular breath at a young age, and he taught me all about the BLUES. He always stressed the BLUES. He taught me that you must first emulate, assimilate, and then innovate. And that you must develop your own style. He also told me, the only thing that is hip is what comes out of your bell. "Let your horn do the talking." If more players would follow these principals we would have less "TRUMPET IMPERSONATORS." I get really sick of all the musicians trying to make it in the music business by copying the masters. We should learn from them and then create our own styles. Like Miles said, "Jazz has no Tradition." Jazz is supposed to move forward, not backward. 2) You've studied privately with several influential trumpet players. Please share some of your experiences with each one and tell us a little about those lessons. When I was young and up until I had a car accident in 2001, I studied with as many trumpet players as possible. I always had a large appetite for knowledge. Some lessons were formal, some were over a glass of wine, and many were on the back seat of a bus or on an airplane. My first trumpet instructor was my father; he set my embouchure and taught me to play by ear. My father could not read music but had a wonderful interpretation for music, especially Mexican Mariachi music. As I got older, he sent me to my next guru, Fenton Katz. I studied with Fenton and Ed Wolfe all through high school. They had me working out of many classical etude books to the point that I made the Albuquerque Youth Orchestra. This was a wonderful experience for me. Fenton and Bob Farley were responsible for introducing me to Clark. I attended New Mexico State University from 1974-1976 to study with a great classical trumpet instructor, Sam Trimble. He is now the principal trumpet player with the El Paso Symphony. He remains a great friend, and I owe him a lot. He really busted my balls. He had me working out of so many books I could never keep up. The discipline and the art of perfection that he taught I still apply to my routine today. When I left N.M.S.U. I went to the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. There I studied with Walter Blanton, Tony Rodriguez, Luis Valizan, Carl Saunders, Tom Holden, and Dick Alber. Vegas was great in those days. I had the opportunity to go to school by day and play in the KICKS Bands by night. I don't think I slept for 10 years; it was great! Another of my gurus has to be Bobby Shew. I met him shortly after meeting Clark. I can officially say that I will always be a student of Bobby and Clark, and there would be no Tony Lujan without them. They have been more than just trumpet teachers; they helped set me on a course of no return--I owe them my Heart. Bobby taught me out of the book "The Science of Breath". Once he got my breathing together, everything was together. He was always helpful with advice, not only pertaining to music, but also to life. He was like the big brother I never had, and his wife Lisa is a very special person to me, as well. 3) What was your setting for your lessons with Woody Shaw? What kinds of Melodic, Harmonic, Rhythmic ideas made up your conversations. I became Woody's friend around 1986. I was always a Woody freak, as well as a huge Freddie Hubbard freak. We studied in hotel rooms and one time at Sweet Basil's and a couple times when we were both on tour in Europe with separate groups. Woody liked my company. I know that some people had a hard time getting to know him but he was a sweetheart and lovable and sometimes had a funny sense of humor. I picked his brain for his harmonic concept. He was not open at first, but after I pulled out my horn and he could hear my feeble attempt to emulate his harmonic concept he was eager to help. We got into sub-dominant, re-harmonization of a tune: How to play the blues without ever playing the blues scale. He also liked to utilize the usage of tone rows. You can hear this in his playing: Example 1: ii v7 I A-7 D7 GMaj GMaj becomes: ii V7/bVI bVIMaj V7/III A-7 Bb7 EbMaj7 F#7 IIIMaj V7/I I B Maj7 D7 Gmaj7 Example 2: ii V7 I A-7 D7 Gmaj7 becomes: ii V7/III7Maj III7Maj V7 I A-7 F#7 BMaj 7 D7 Gmaj7 In the first four bars of the Blues you can use Secondary Dominants G7 C7 G7 G7 becomes: Ab7 Db7 F#7 B7 E7 A7 D7 G7and back to C7. Then you can apply the tri-tone sub Ab7 G7 F#7 F7 E7 Eb7 D7 Db7. You can also turn these into ii V7 Ab-7 Db7 F#-7 B7 E-7 A7 D-7 G7 or Ab-7 G7 F#-7 F7 E-7 Eb7 D-7Db7 He also taught me to think of my tonal centers. For example, turn the first four bars of the Blues into G Whole tone ( b13) which turns the harmonic function into G9+11. I think this was the beginning of his experimentation with tone rows. If you listen to some of his compositions, for example on the bridge of "Little Red's Fantasy," that is a great example of how he used tone rows. He also used tone rows when he improvised. Since then I purchased a book by Schoenberg, "The Study of Tone Rows." This opened up harmonic ideas and how to use them and sound structured in my playing. He was constantly changing the harmonic structure of the tune to make it more HIP!! He also taught me the validity of using fourths in my improv. I must say, it's very difficult to play fourth on the trumpet, but with many hours of patience and practice it can be accomplished. I don't believe anyone has changed or improved the harmonic concept since Woody. He might be the last harmonic innovator to attack the trumpet. There is so much more we could talk about concerning Woody's harmonic concept. The best way to learn is to check out his recordings; all the information has been recorded and left for us to learn. 4) What did Cat Anderson, Lead trumpeter with the Duke Ellington's bands, show or discuss with you that significantly impacted your music. I was always interested in the upper register. My dad was into Maynard. I can still remember when he came home one day and put on "Live at Jimmy's." He told me, "That's how I want you to play." My response was, "Yeah, right." Let me hear you do it Dad. I was fortunate to meet Cat, I believe back in 1984-85. I was invited by a good friend of mine, Tony Rodriguez. Cat was in town with either Louie Bellson or Vic Demon. We went up to his room and he taught us his warm up. I still have his manuscript. He basically got me into long-tones and when he said long-tones he meant 20 minutes a note. Twenty minutes on a middle G, rest 10 minutes, 20 minutes on a middle C, rest 10 minutes, 20 minutes on a E, rest 10 minutes, 20 minutes on a G, etc. This exercise is to be practiced "pianissimo." He did this exercise with a harmon mute with the end plugged up with some tissue paper.This really helped my range on the trumpet. I do this religiously three to four days a week. I combine the circular breathing with the long-tone exercises. Some times I play for 20 minutes with out stopping. This is only an exercise, it has no musical validity. This exercise will not only give you high notes and endurance, but also a beautiful tone. Technique is only a tool to execute your idea. Many jazz players never had the chops to play lead. Most of my heros could do both. 5) Discuss your association with Freddie Hubbard? I met Freddie Hubbard in 1982 after returning from a European tour with the Clark Terry Big Band. I was invited to perform at the Telluride Jazz Festival. I new I could never be Clark Terry, so I dreamed of becoming Freddie. Freddie had all the chops ,tone, time,technique, funk, sass, and most of all, SOUL. Freddie always played as if he wasn't afraid to hit a wrong note, which he never did. He was always fresh to listen to. I probably got to check him out more than any other trumpet player besides Clark. Freddie was the first cat that I witnessed who would stretch out for not a chorus or so, but for minutes. And he would never repeat himself. I used to go over his house many times, just to hang out with him and pick his brain. He was always helpful; I remember he would sit at the piano and teach me some harmony, and sometimes he would play the tunes on the piano and I would play the trumpet. Just the other day I called him to check in, and he started giving me his latest hip lick over the telephone. I also like his compositions and arranging skills. If you recall, he did a lot of arranging back in the days with the Messengers. Freddie on a good day was hard to match. I love him with all my heart. 6) Tell us about your album TRIBUTE, which features songs by some of the most influential trumpeters, interpreted in a variety of Latin styles. How did you choose your repertoire? Assemble the players? What specific kinds of rehearsal, Preparation, and camaraderie developed in the studio and production? Choosing the tunes was difficult; there were so many to choose from, and with a larger budget I would have included many more of my trumpet heros. I wanted to include Louis Armstrong, Tom Harrell, Bobby Shew, and many more. The selection process was: Being a great jazz trumpet player who was also a composer. I wanted to put each composition in a specific Latin rhythm for Latin America. I was really tired of playing Montuno jazz, Salsa jazz, Merengue jazz, usually over one chord. I have nothing against this type of music, all good music has it's place in the universe. I just wanted to play Jazz Latino the way that Dizzy and Chano Pozo intended it to be. Jazz musicians playing over latin rhythms. It was Dizzy who invited Chano to the bandstand, not the other way around. If you check out jazz history, jazz musicians were always interested in the Latin rhythms. We must give the credit to Dizzy for bringing it into vogue. Assembling the musicians was easy--there are only a few musicians who can play BeBop and understand Latin. This is a hard nut to crack, a lot of jazz musicians can play BeBop and a lot of Latino musicians can play Salsa, but to find a group that can play both is tough. All the cats in the group are qualified for both genres. Conrad Herwig and I met in the Clark Terry Big Band back in 1981, I met Richie and John Benitez with Eddie Palmieri; Dafnis and Yosvanni I met one night about 10 years ago, when they were performing at the Knitting Factory. I was hanging out with William Cepeda and Ravi Coltrane when they were on a state tour of the U.S with their fathers' group. I remember walking up to Dafnis and telling him that one day we were going to record. Miguel Zenon was a kid going to Berkelee when I happened to be at a jam session at Wally's. When this kid sat in and started to play, I could hear his maturity, and immediately hired him for the record date "You Don't Know What Love Is." His first date in N.Y. was with me. I feel very fortunate to have him as my friend. I met Edsel Gomez when I first heard the David Sanchez band about 10 years ago. I just love his personality and musicianship, and most of all his arranging skills. He is one bad piano player who can play Latin and swing hard. Lusito and Robertito Quintero are from Venezuela. They have to be the most poly-rhythmic brothers in the world. They both added the icing to the Cake. Rehearsals--Wow!--we had many. This project was not easy. I insist on doing my recordings live. That means we have to have the music under our fingers. We rehearsed twice in October, twice in November, and then three consecutive days before the record date. I also wanted to use Horacio "El Negro" Hernandez and Pedro Martinez and Charlie Flores, but due to scheduling conflicts, it wasn't possible. As far as camaraderie goes, we are all friends, and we all left our egos outside the studio. We were all there to pay TRIBUTE to the great trumpet players who have given us so much music, and we had our jobs cut out for us on this particular recording. 7) You've released several albums on your own label, Bella Records, including You don't Know what Love Is, Miles Away. Describe why you created your own label, What that entailed, and the benefits and challenges or drawbacks. Many jazz musicians and rock musicians, like Branford Marsalis and Prince, have resorted to starting their own companies to create good music. Most great jazz music has always been on the independent labels. Large companies (without mentioning any names) are more interested in selling CDs than in recording great jazz. Let's face it, jazz does not sell like Rap or Madonna. Jazz is art, period, and from day one the artist has always had to fend for himself. Without art, this world would be much worse off. Music is the Blood of the Planet, it is the only universal language. It is the only language that crosses all racial barriers. I've been many places, and I must say that I have friends all over the world because of music. Without music, I would have been considered a tourist. The benefits are mentioned above--my love for music. The drawbacks are only minimal compared to the gain and contentment that beautiful music can provide. I look forward to producing other artists as well. It has been challenging, but then again, that's part of the fun. I always wanted to be a composite musician. I like starting a project and finishing it. It's great to have a double high C, but I never wanted to be known as a ONE note wonder. Arranging, composing, copying, section, lead, jazz, classical, and producing. I love it all. I remember Bobby Shew told me many years ago, "Make your decision, 'Musician or Technician.'" I took that to heart. The only thing I can pontificate is, Great Music always Prevails. 8) What are the positive and what pitfalls or challenges do you experience by being based in Boston as opposed to an entertainment hub such as New York or Los Angeles. After returning from a six-week tour in Europe, I returned home to Los Angeles and was left homeless, penniless, and without my children. My ex-wife had sold the house and moved to Fort Collins, Colorado. The judge and lawyers in Los Angeles involved in our settlement were very prejudiced, not only because of my ethnicity, but also because of my occupation. After sleeping for months on friends' floors, in my vehicle, and in parks, I fled to New York. When I got there I was still in shock and very despondent over my living conditions, and I also longed for my children. My attitude was the worst it had ever been. I was living a life of solitude. I never wanted to be in public because I didn't want to verbally assault anyone. I had met a beautiful woman, Liliana, and she was living on Cape Cod. I would escape New York to work out my anger. After many trips I decided to move there until I got my head together. I would probably still be in Los Angeles had it not been for my ex-wife's vehemence. I miss Los Angeles--the studio work, Bill Holman Orch., many of my musician friends, and the general vibe. Plus, you can't beat the weather. I also miss New York for some of the same reasons. On the flip side of that coin, I have become accustomed to living on the Cape, my children love it here, and I seem to accomplish more for myself musically. In 2001 after an Eddie Palmieri concert, we had the misfortune of a terrible car accident that nearly took my life. I could not remember that I played trumpet and once I remembered that I played trumpet I could not hold the trumpet. My left hand had suffered some muscular damage. I would try to play, and my TMJ was so bad that after five to ten seconds, I would lose all my tone. I continued with therapy, but then I started experiencing brain seizures. This took place for at least a year. I didn't know if I would ever be able to play again. At that point I was stuck on Cape Cod. As I improved, I searched for anything to do musically in Boston. I think if you're a classical musician and play with the POPS or the Symphony, Boston would be cool, but on the commercial end of the business it's not great. It is a major teaching community, it in no way could ever compare to New York or Los Angeles. There are many great musicians here, but they all teach and play for free. Now, what are we teaching our students if we have to go out and play for free? 9) Could you share some of your perspectives about how to improvise and the process of improvisation? While attending UNLV I had a wonderful experience studying improv with the one and only Carl Fontana--he was great. He ran the class in an unorthodox fashion. He was always late and when he showed up he was totally unprepared, or so it seemed at first. He would call out a tune and pick someone to go to the chalkboard and write the changes and melody. Then he would have you write all the scales that were available for use. At that point he would set the metronome on two and four and you were required to play a bass line. Once you mastered the bass line with the metronome he would turn off the metronome and have you play the melody, then the bass line, then if everything was cool he would allow you to improvise. I still apply this principal today. The only other thing that I do now is re-harmonize the tune as I go, and one other concept that I learned from Clark is to scat the melody and the bass and then improvise. Scatting is a great way to get a student to play in time. Sometimes young students have a hard time with timing; if you can scat in time then all you have to do is to practice your technique to execute your ideas. 10) Discuss the temptation to focus on technique over music that some artist experience. How do you work to balance the two. I was lucky to have great teachers. I still have the book that Bobby Shew wrote for me back in 1975 when I drove to Los Angeles to study with him. "Technique is only needed to express your idea." "The idea is senior." If you rely on technique you will become a technician. If you play from your soul you will be a musician. How many times have you been to a concert and the opening tune is Faster Higher Louder, the next tune the same, and then here comes the ballad and the melody is so beautiful, then the solo and you're back where you started: Faster Higher Louder. By the fourth tune you're waiting for the man to be shot out of the cannon. Music is not a circus. Once again a quote from Bobby Shew, "Music is a range of emotions." There is nothing wrong with playing Slower Lower Softer. A true artist will hold back for the sake of art. It's not about playing the ultimate solo. Check out all the beautiful recordings that Chet and Miles did with every note below Hi C, and playing so slow and low. I learned this from Bobby Shew; here is a musician with all the chops in the world, but when he plays a ballad you wish you were home with your sweetheart. You must turn off your ego switch and play the music and not let the technique get in the way of art. 11) What kinds of process do you go through in composing songs? Please tell us about some of the rhythmic, melodic, harmonic or other sources that provide seeds for your creations. Each tune is a different story. I don't have any particular formula, I never studied arranging or composition formally. I started doing transcriptions of Miles, Freddie, and most of all, Tom Harrell, my favorite person to transcribe--one of the most perfect jazz musicians. Then I moved on to transcribing for a Funk band that I played with while I was attending U.N.L.V. After doing over 100 transcriptions for the band, I had a foundation for the pen. At that point I started writing for the Quintet. I don't consider my tunes compositions; in my book, the definition of a composition would be what Stravinsky, Berlioz, Wagner, Mozart, Ravel etc., have done. I consider my tunes a vehicle for improv. The seeds for my creations come from every experience, for example: " Lullaby for Tiana" was written for my daughter, my first born. When I saw her beauty, I just had to write her a lullaby. "Mitch and Miles" was written for my twin sons. Inspiration comes, and it is everywhere; our planet is full of beauty to write about. For example, when I wrote the arrangement for "Nardis," I was looking for moose on the Kancamangas Highway (in New Hampshire), you dig? When I wrote "Forever My Love," I wrote it for Liliana. I played the melody onto a palm recorder; two month later I put the changes to the melody, and two years after that I gave it to Felipe Salles to arrange for the record date. When I wrote "The Science Project" I was giving a composition lesson. I was explaining to the student how to utilize sub-dominants and other forms of substitutions. The melody came later. The melody usually predicts the harmony. As far as rhythmic ideas: When you're writing for a Latin Jazz Septet, the rhythmic possibilities are many. You must understand CLAVE to write Latin. There are specific patterns you must study: Bomba, Plena, Rumba, etc. Everyone interested in Latin should study some hand percussion, this will help you understand how the clave and the cascara, congas, bongo and campana intertwine. They are specific patterns, and if you don't know them it will be obvious. 12) What Kind of sound and group dynamic are you seeking when you lead your own group. I like the concept that Miles had in the 60s, where you let the cats go. Every musician in the group has Carte Blanche. How can you hold back a great musician, and why would you want to? In a live performance we cover Jazz Latino, Funk, and Be-Bop as well. >From night to night it is a different story, It's hard to predict where the music will take us. 13) Briefly, how do you want your music to influence people? what do you want it to say or do? If we could somehow bring happiness or joy, or influence people to tune into Jazz Latino and Be-bop, like our mentors did to preserve it for the future generations to come, that would make me very happy. 14) Could you share with us some books, authors, art and/or experiences outside of music have influenced your awareness, and artistry. Outside of music, good point. One must have a life outside of music. As they say, if you don't have a life, then what are going to say? You dig?! For example: How do you expect a kid to really play the BLUES if he has never experienced the BLUES. I have always been a voracious reader. There are many books we can talk about, but I'll mention a few:
Also, The Prophet, by Gilbrian, The Prayer of Jebez, by Bruce Wilkinson, anything by Carlos Casteneda, Dr Wayne W. Dyer, Shirley Mc CLain, Richard Bach, and Depak Chopra. I really like Pablo Neruda, Hemmingway, and of course, the BIBLE. There are so many good books to read. Hobbies: I like to Ski, Golf, Swim, Hike, Play Tennis, Ride Horses, Biking and Reading. Art: I have been fortunate to travel through most of the world. I always make it a point if we have the time to visit museums. I like Monet, Matisse, Van Gough, Picasso, Dali, Vasquez, Kandinsky, Paul Klee. I also respect and enjoy the work of architect Frank Lloyd Wright and Michaelangelo, and many more--I like art. I have learned and seen so much in my travels. My education began when I left college. Being a father, husband, and son bring me a lot of joy, inspiration, and happiness, which in turn promotes art and music. 16) What are the pitfalls of developing an big ego as an artist? How can one avoid that? Great question. Many people have egos and many people control their ego. The ultimate is to destroy your ego. Ego is important in the beginning of your childhood in the developmental stage, but as we mature it must be removed or it will destroy you or you will destroy someone. Ego is synonomous with ignorance, greed, gluttony, envy, jealousy, money, bigotry and power. People start wars, get divorced, do drugs, compete, lie because of ego. As we say in Los Angeles and New York, "If you think you're one in a million, there's nine of you walking around, so shut up." In order to find your own voice in music or art, one must be on a constant search for Self; when you start to find yourself you will be constantly bombarded with criticism and, believe me, people are eager to put you down, especially in the beginning. You must have a strong relationship with God, or some form of faith. Why do you think we have so many Jazz musicians impersonating the Masters? Because of ego. They are afraid to hit a wrong note, they're afraid to follow the road less traveled. It is much easier to feed their ego by sounding like someone great and well -established. Plus if you want a record deal and sound exactly like Miles, the record companies will sign you, not for your art, but to make money. Check out the masters: Coltrane was put down because of all the fast notes, Bird as well. Miles, the critics put him down all the time for all the experimentation with his music. Where would we be with out these cats going out on a limb? I feel sorry for all these cats who spend their whole lives as "THE RICH LITTLES OF THE TRUMPET." They're missing out on their God-given life. Imagine if every painter painted the same painting, or if we all looked alike. Do you think Leonardo Di Vinci ever thought that the Mona Lisa would land in the Louvre? Do you think he thought that was his best? What about Picasso, or Dali? Everyone who makes it in the channels of history must channel his art. Humans need to learn to get out of the way. The day I can create Niagara Falls or the state of Alaska or, better yet, create a Universe, then I would deserve an ego, but then I would be considered a God, and Gods have no ego! Most of my friends in the music business are the most spiritual, well-centered, humble, balanced people I know. Genius can only take place by removing ego. People must learn to channel love. Music is not a game you can WIN, only PLAY. I personally feel that I have not created anything new, I'm just on a constant search of self, and I'm enjoying every minute of it. I thank God every day that I'm given the opportunity to play one more chorus of the BLUES. 17) Many people in general, and artist in particular, proclaim that they are sensitive. What characterizes sensitivity and kinds of efforts and attention must one make to have that manifest itself consistently? I did not know the definition of sensitivity until the birth of my first born, I think sensitivity is like fine wine, it only comes with time. The older I become, the better I get at my craft, the more I realize how much I don't know. This process has a way of humbling the soul, the more humble I become the more sensitive I become. They call this process maturity. 18) Dan Boorstin, former Librarian of congress stated that,, The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. How have you experienced and dealt with this in your life? In dealing with others? As I was taught: "If you have to ask, You'll never Know". As Einstein stated, "If you believe in the invisible, then the impossible is possible". Another proverb: Necessity is the mother of invention. Once you know there is a problem, you know the solution. It is the wise man who listens. A lot of life is innate. Of course I have had to deal with ignorance, it is all over the world, just look around and you can see it. It has existed since the beginning of time. Ignorance has nothing to do with a poorly educated person. In fact, most people who are highly educated are in the group that are most ignorant. Historically, it has always been the well-educated and wealthy who start the wars and also fund both sides of the war. Check out what happened here in America: Christopher Columbus is proclaimed to have discovered America, when in fact he thought he had found India. That is why they call us Indians. Buffalo Bill, a great legend of American history, was part of the conspiracy to kill all the buffalo so that the Natives would not have any food. Why do you think Andrew Jackson is on the 20 dollar bill? Because his administration was responsible for the extermination of 20 million human lives, women and children included. How do I deal with ignorance? I pray to the God of forgiveness for his mercy. Tony Lujan |